Directing that transcends the imaginary line: An interview with Kenji Nakamura and Kiyotaka Suzuki from “Mononoke the Movie: Chapter 2: Fire Rat” (Part 2)
(C) Twin Engine
“Mononoke The Movie: Chapter 2: Fire Rat,” which follows “Mononoke The Movie: Karakasa,” was released on March 14th. The middle of the trilogy, this work is directed by Nakamura Kenji as general director and Suzuki Kiyotaka as director, and is produced by Kuruseru, a new studio that is a group company of the production company Twin Engine.
Director Suzuki, who has been involved in many of Nakamura’s works, has been working on the project as a team, leading Kuruseru’s animation and direction unit since he joined “Karakasa” as a director’s assistant. In the second part of the interview, Nakamura Kenji (general director) and Suzuki Kiyotaka (director) were asked questions about specific scenes in “Mononoke The Movie: Chapter 2: Fire Rat.” We also asked them about their outlook for Chapter 2 and the following Chapter 3 to the extent that they could. (Interview and composition: Gosho Kotaro/Anime Hack Editorial Department)
*This interview touches heavily on the contents of “Mononoke The Movie: Chapter 2: Fire Rat.” We recommend reading after watching it.
■ How to depict the convergence point of the second chapter’s story
Elderly Councillor Otomo
(C)Twin Engine
–The second chapter begins with a scene of the Elders playing shogi. It was a bit of an unexpected start, but was this because you wanted to start from a different place than the first chapter?
Suzuki: We started with a scene in the Elders’ room, as a continuation from the first chapter, and we had the intention of introducing the characters we most wanted to remember first. People with backgrounds to talk about naturally come to the fore, so we wanted to introduce the characters who needed some explanation first.
Tokita Fuki
(C)Twin Engine
–There is a scene towards the end of the story where Tokita Fuki and Tokita Yoshimichi (Fuki and Saburomaru’s father) are talking while facing each other in front of a folding screen. What Fuki is talking about is hidden in the middle of the story, and then it comes out again at the end. The scene of the conversation was very elaborate in terms of direction, and I felt that it was a climax separate from the action. Please tell me about the directorial aim of that series of scenes.
Suzuki: That scene was where I was fine-tuning the lines, the way the cuts were inserted, the camera position, etc. with Director Nakamura until the very end, so I’m glad that people paid attention to it. That is the convergence point of the story of the second chapter, and also the end point of the drama of Fuki and (Otomo) Button. And it’s the same for Sakashita. The same situation is depicted, where Fuki is forced to endure the tragedy that happened to Suzu-san, whom he couldn’t save 20 years ago, but this time the outcome is different. By doing so, he was able to start afresh, or rather, he was rewarded, so he wiped away his tears with the towel that Suzu gave him. Sakashita’s drama ends there, but after the battle with the Fire Rat, the same scene is repeated, this time with dialogue added. The answer is already given before the battle, but by deliberately concealing the dialogue in the first scene, I think the multi-layered structure of the scenario works well.
Suzu
(C)Twin Engine
Nakamura: In the first chapter, we did something similar, where we depicted it so that it was hard to understand what Asa said. In fact, the answer was given once here, but to understand the answer, you have to watch the next sequence. The character himself says it in the first scene, but for the convenience of the viewer, I want you to hear it after the Fire Rat is cut by the medicine seller. It was also a scene to show how to show it for that purpose. In the second chapter, there is also Sakashita’s reaction, so those who are good at guessing will somehow understand that this is the part that makes Sakashita happy, but I think some people will be confused. But in the end, Fuki’s flashback comes in at a good time, so even those who were confused can go home feeling refreshed. You could also say that the speed of the characters’ emotions and the way I wanted the story structure to be seen clash, and when I thought about how to do it without compromising the characters or the story, I felt that this was the best way to show it.
–Thank you. In the scene where Fuki and Yoshiji are talking, the imaginary line that is usually not to be crossed is switched. I thought that was also a typical way of showing “Mononoke”.
Suzuki: Nakamura-san tells me to “switch imaginary lines a lot” in his works (laughs), so I do it quite often. I often use it to create a directorial hook or to keep the audience’s attention, and I also use it to trigger something to happen, like the scene you just mentioned. Personally, I think of it as a directorial act to mess with the audience’s heart rate.
–I think Chapter 2 had more scenes that were a little more stimulating than Chapter 1, such as a scene where a human body bursts into flames due to fire rats and erotic depictions. Director Suzuki has worked on many relatively hard works, such as “PSYCHO-PASS 2” and “Babylon”, but were you conscious of going further in terms of stimulation than Chapter 1?
Suzuki: Speaking of the tendency of the works I have done so far, as you mentioned, I may be a little less sensitive to the stimuli conveyed by animation pictures than the average person. There are some parts where I think it’s okay as long as there are no things that are absolutely not allowed, and I think that if I’m not strongly told not to do it, I might do it (laughs).
Nakamura: Director Suzuki is someone who draws straightforward storyboards, and there were some parts where I felt that it might be too straightforward, so I turned it into a curveball. In terms of the stimuli that you just mentioned, I’m the type who wants to turn them off (※I want to turn off direct depictions of stimuli). Including that, I asked Suzuki to “do it freely” with the storyboard, and after that, I felt that it would be fine if we just adjusted it through mutual communication. There was nothing left that I didn’t want to do, and it feels like the final screen is what I talked about and resolved with Director Suzuki.
The reason why Kume-chan was drawn so vividly
The character on the left is Kume
(C) Twin Engine
–I’m sorry to be so specific, but the three maids who watch the fire appear frequently in Chapter 2. The short girl among them looks like something from a different anime–
Nakamura/Suzuki: (laughs)
–I thought the animation was well-roughened and had a good atmosphere. Also, Sakashita, who guards the entrance to the Ooku, seemed more approachable in Chapter 2, so I would appreciate it if you could tell me if there was any intention behind that.
Suzuki: It seems that I misunderstood the animation of Kume-chan, but I thought that Director Nakamura must love Kume-chan, so I kept asking him to add more acting. Then the animators thought, “This character is the one we can depict most freely in this work,” and “We can make him deformed.” In fact, the design materials had drawings of deformed expressions such as crying or squeezing the eyes, so everyone felt free to draw the character, and it really came out on screen. Still, the direction didn’t waver, so I think we were able to portray Kume-chan’s character vividly.
Sakashita
(C)Twin Engine
As for Sakashita, his memorable scenes are in both the first and second halves, but the same animator is in charge of them. I think the fact that he is very good at drawing makes him so familiar.
Nakamura: As for Kume-chan’s drawing, I felt like “I wanted him to do it to this extent.” Chapter 1 was in a hard, sharp direction, and Director Suzuki and I had talked about “wanting to do manga-like expressions here and there,” but there wasn’t much room for that. But in Chapter 2, there were quite a few gaps where we could spend time on character portrayal, and the three girls originally came from the scenario for Chapter 2. The characters were created by Shinhachikaku, who was in charge of the script for Chapter 2, and we thought they were good, so we had them appear in the scenario for Chapter 1 as a first appearance. Suzuki said it was a misunderstanding, but of course I like Kume-chan too (laughs). I really love the scene at the end where she’s panicking and breathing heavily. I watched it several times, not just as a creator, but purely as a viewer.
Otomo Button
(C)Twin Engine
–Please tell us a little about the third chapter. In the endings of both chapters 1 and 2, three ropes tied to a kind of underground shrine are shown being removed one by one.
Nakamura: I’ve mentioned this in various places during interviews for chapter 1, but all of the “Mononoke the Movie” up to chapter 3 are basically made with the theme of “fallacy of composition.” It’s a story about the stress that occurs between individuals and groups/organizations, and something that arises from that becomes emotion, and is deeply involved in the emergence of Mononoke. Furthermore, it is structured to ask what choices people make in such situations, for example, in chapter 2, people in the past did this, but people today who saw it did this, what would you do? Even if there are no murders or Mononokes, everyone still worries, and I think the drama is an extension of the worries in everyday life. In that sense, the story progresses in stages, with Chapter 1 being the story of the new recruits in the organization and Chapter 2 being the story of those who have become mid-level members of the organization.
In Chapter 1, Utayama says to Asa, “When you have a higher perspective, what you see changes,” and that line is crucial to the entire story. If you look at the world of Ooku from the perspective of the characters in Chapter 2, this is what it looks like, and then in Chapter 3, we’ll wonder from what perspective the world of Ooku should be viewed…
–I’m sure many people who have seen “Mononoke the Movie” are wondering what kind of water the people in Ooku are drinking. But that also applies if you watch up to Chapter 3…
Nakamura: (nodding) Yes, that’s fine.
(C)Twin Engine
–Thank you. Finally, I would like to hear from Director Suzuki about his impressions after completing Chapter 2, and Director Nakamura’s comments on that.
Suzuki: I think Chapter 2 has a flavor that combines the best parts of the TV series and Chapter 1. You could say that it successfully combined what I like about “Mononoke” with what I thought was new and amazing about this movie. In terms of the work on the production site, I am very satisfied with the fact that we were able to concentrate the full power of the Kuruseru team on the film, and that we were able to create something while spending a lot of time together with Nakamura.
Nakamura: I’m glad that I left Chapter 2 to Director Suzuki, and I personally felt that I had a chance to learn about the way Director Suzuki and his team think and their culture. I was able to interact with a lot of young directors, and although I don’t usually do that kind of thing, I went into a bit of dad mode and muttered to myself next to him, “(As a director) it might be better if this play was even more like this” (laughs). I think Director Suzuki and the other young directors heard this and there were many parts where the footage was polished up several levels, which surprised me and made me think, “Everyone’s amazing.” Personally, I’m satisfied, but my own reaction to it all depends on the feedback from the audience. I look forward to your continued encouragement and guidance.
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